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== How quickly could I launch something out of the solar system ==

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<html>Do you mean in a terminal velocity kind of way or how many years would it take to do this project kind of way? posted by at on October 2

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You could probably model it with

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I think the quickest way would be to slingshot around the sun and other bodies, like the Voyager probe did. If you didn't care about tracking it, you could probably send something close to the sun and on a hyperbolic trajectory quite quickly... posted by at on October 2

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As an initial way of thinking about this, at a market price of $10k per kg to LEO (Ariane 5), you could throw 50,[http://friendvalley.tk/index.php?do=/blog/306336/importance-of-soft-serve-for-a-successful-occasion/ Importance Of Soft Serve For A Successful Occasion]

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[http://friendvalley.tk/index.php?do=/blog/306336/importance-of-soft-serve-for-a-successful-occasion/ Importance Of Soft Serve For A Successful Occasion],000 kg up for around $500M (outsourced); since you don't really need insurance maybe a little cheaper. This would be two launches. The remainder of the $1B would be spent on people, project, materials, and the items themselves. If the items need a fuel source that will function outside the solar system, for example if they are to be heralds that spend their future actively broadcasting the glories of Ms. Vanity to the galaxy at large, the cost is immediately prohibitive and it will not work; maybe she buys RTGs from the Russians though.

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Assume that you will exit via a tour of the solar system which means some amount of attitude adjustment is going to be necessary and some amount of ground support. Voyager 1 is a good enough model of that, and it was 815 kg (at launch, it's less now). So around 50 Voyagers.

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Of course, that's a long trip, and launch windows come into play.

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Total cost of V1 + V2 was $968B, btw. Ms. Vanity will do better by outsourcing and buying in bulk (and not having a ground crew or advanced sensors). posted by at on October 2

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You could do it this way: launch a satellite into low earth orbit equipped with a . Use this to regularly fire small, perhaps bullet-sized capsules close to, but not right at, the sun. With sufficient speed and the right aim, they would slingshot around the sun and out of the solar system. Fire a lot and someone might spot one eventually when it flies near them, especially if they were highly reflective to radar or similar.

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Of course, they might assume it was a weapon, especially if it hit someone or ploughed into an inhabited planet. I doubt they would appreciate it, and they might track it back and wipe out our descendants. posted by at on October 2 []

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Does immediate speed matter? There's always a flotilla of objects set forth with. Bonus - the sails could be made so big, that you'd probably see them from Earth for a while too. Talk about vanity! posted by at on October 2

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Thanks for the comments so far. To clarify, I'm looking for the fictional conversation to go something like:

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Vanity Billionaire: So how soon from launch could be get something out of the solar system?

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Sane Scientist: Well, it took Voyager 36 years to do its 19 billion kilometres ...

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Vanity Billionaire: Yes, yes, but I'm not interested in the science - I don't need pictures of planets, or fancy instruments. I want to say hello to the Universe, and I want to say it asap. This is art, with my name on it.

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Sane Scientist: Well, if its all about speed, we could launch a minimalist probe and [do x - complicated]

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Vanity Billionaire checks phone or something.

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Sane Scientist: ... and that would get us out in say [y years].

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Vanity Billionaire: That's what I'm talking about! posted by at on October 2

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It's going to depend a lot on how you choose to define the solar system. If you go with the definition used for Voyager, the edge is where the solar wind stops, called the .

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From my googling, we're not sure what the shape of the heliopause is. It might be a sphere, or it might be a teardrop, or an ellipse.

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If you're trying to reach the heliopause and it's not roughly spherical, figuring out which direction to go in is going to be pretty important. posted by at on October 2

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ok...voyager is about as big as a small building, mass-wise...using the same rocket (was it a saturn 5?) you could probably catch up to it with your cell phone (plus maybe a small RTG (radioactive battery, like voyager has)) in under 5 years....much less mass to move... posted by at on October 2

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how about literally catching up to voyager?...like, cellphone+RTG+like, a freaking magnet...then just piggyback...that would be RAD!

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bonus points for it being the phone she had when astronomy became a thing for her...like all pink and blinged out and hello kitty and Carl Sagan's autograph stuffed under the battery cover... posted by at on October 2

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Look at the graph of the Voyager Grand Tour . As you can see, most of Voyager's velocity--in particular, the velocity needed to put it above escape velocity from the sun--came from the probe's gravitational slingshots around Jupiter and then Saturn.

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You won't be able to duplicate the rest of for another 150 years or so, when all the outer planets have that kind of helpful alignment again,[http://deluxcustomlighting.com/shows.html cheap jerseys with free shipping], but as you can see from the graph most of the velocity comes from the first two, Jupiter and Saturn, and I believe those are in useful alignments quite a lot more often. Still, you are likely to be waiting X years until you've got a good alignment of those two planets.

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As sexyrobot says, you could gain some extra velocity by eliminating most of Voyager probe and equipment and just replacing it with more propellant. Then you would burn this extra propellent in an during the period of closest approach to Jupiter and/or Saturn during the gravity slingshot manuever.

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This would buy you some additional velocity, though I couldn't say how much exactly without working out a whole lot of details. My sense is, that the vast bulk of the additional velocity comes from the gravity well maneuver itself and the Oberth Effect burn would only add a bit of icing on the cake.

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Another option would be to send the probe around the sun first, then to Jupiter and Saturn. You would do your Oberth Effect burn on the way around the sun, which would maximize the effectiveness of the maneuver.

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My sense though is that all these maneuvers are going to be only marginally faster than Voyager. They won't be 100X faster, or 10X faster, or even 2-3X faster. More likely, 25% faster or something along those lines.

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To get massively higher speeds than Voyager you'd need massively more propellent in solar orbit (to be burnt in one or more Oberth Effect maneuvers) and that's something that even billionaires won't be able to do. The fact that Voyager includes some cameras and stuff doesn't slow it down nearly as much as you would think, because most of its velocity came from Gravity Slingshot maneuvers that are going to work the same regardless of whether you stripped the spacecraft down or not. posted by at on October 2

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As mentioned above, the best way to get a feel for how this stuff works, and test out some realistic scenarios, is to use the .

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The paper by G. A. Flandro that outlined the possibility of the Planetary Grand Tour using Gravitational Slingshot maneuvers, as realized by the Voyager missions, is interesting background reading about the whole concept and is .

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However,[http://www.tricana.pt/topos.php Wholesale NFL Jerseys], here is the answer I think you're looking for: summarizes the results of an automated system they used to search for 'planetary grand tour' type opportunities.

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If you look at Table 1 (p. 364) they summarize a whole bunch of different possibilities, including what year, what planets, and how long it will take.

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On that list is the opportunity that comes every 13 years for a mission from Earth to Jupiter to Pluto, arriving at Pluto in only 2500 days. That puts our megalomaniac space probe at approx. 40 AU in approx. 6.8 years, whereas Voyager 1 took about 13 years to reach that same distance (that's the distance of Voyager 1's , taken in 1990).

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So there you go--2X as fast a Voyager to reach that point.

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FYI I can't say for certain if Megalomanic Space Probe (MSP) will be going faster or slower than Voyager 1 was at that point. Voyager 1 2 both spent a fair bit of time billiarding their way around to various planets in various parts of the Solar System. MSP would save time by going straight to Jupiter then straight to Pluto. But not sure if it's going faster or slower than Voyagers at that point. posted by at on October 2

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then a bunch of small 'pellets' get launched from there towards the sun's gravity well, to be slingshotted outwards

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FYI this won't do anything for you. If you just launch pellets (or whatever) towards the sun they will end up in an elliptical orbit that returns exactly to where they started. So your pellets will end up in a nice elliptical orbit whose furthest point from the sun is 1 AU.

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In short, you can't use the sun as a gravity slingshot to escape from the sun's gravity. You have to use one of the planets--and Jupiter, as the largest planet, gives you by far the most boost. posted by at on October 2 []

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FYI this won't do anything for you. If you just launch pellets (or whatever) towards the sun they will end up in an elliptical orbit that returns exactly to where they started. So your pellets will end up in a nice elliptical orbit whose furthest point from the sun is 1 AU.

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Not quite - they'll end up in an elliptical orbit such that when they pass Earth's orbit on the way out they'll be travelling at the railgun's muzzle velocity. (assuming a circular orbit for the Earth, ignoring solar wind, etc, etc, etc)

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But yeah, you can't do an unpowered gravity assist around an object to help you escape that object. The Voyager assists worked by shifting some of Jupiter's (and then Saturn's) Sun-relative momentum to the probe. The Oberth effect with a powered burn at perihelion (closest approach to the Sun) could be used to help escape our solar system, but then you're not using dumb pellets any more, and need to build the probe to withstand near-Solar approach.

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Since you'd need a powered probe, I suspect that a Mediocre Tour (powered assists at Jupiter and Saturn, but skipping the rest of the outer solar system) would be the best bet. posted by at on October 2

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How could humanity start littering interstellar space if they started today?

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Well, the heliopause is a good start. But anything else is a bit ambitious, barring future physics developments. Voyager 1's not going to be at the Oort cloud for another , sadly. You may want to read cstross's essay .

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